Meeting called to order 8:30 June 28, 2004
Attendance:
000000111000000000000111110000 \
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200001000011112021121101022002 \
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaa*aa Steven Sharp
aaaa-aaaapaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-a*aa Karen Pieper
aaa-aaaaa-a----a--aa-aa--a-$aa Cliff Cummings
aa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa=-a Shalom Bresticker
aa-aaaaa--a-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*aa Stefen Boyd
-----a------a--aaaaaaaaaaaa*aa Dennis Marsa
aa--a-aaaaaaa-aaaaa-aaa-aaa$aa James Markevitch
---------aaaa-aa-a-aaaaaaa-=-a Gordon Vreugdenhil
----------aaa--aaa-aa-aaaaa$aa Anders Nordstrom
-----------------------aaa-$a- Ted Elkind
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-a*a- Brad Pierce
-aaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaa-aaaaaa*a- Charles Dawson
-aaaa-aaaaa-aa-a---aa-a-aa-$a- Mike McNamara
aaaaaaaaa--aa-aaaaaaaaaa---*aa Stu Sutherland
-a-a-aaaaa--a--------------*a- Tom Fitzpatrick
---------------------------*aa Elliot Mednick
a----a--a-a-------aa---------- Don Mills
---------aaaa-----a----------- Jay Lawrence
------a-aa-------a------------ Mehdi Mohtashemi
----a--a--aaaa--aa------------ Kurt Baty
------------a----------------- David Smith
---aa--aaaa-a----------------- Dennis Brophy
a-aaaaaaaaaa------------------ Francoise Martinolle
------aaaa-------------------- Drew Lynch
----a---a--------------------- David Roberts
-------a---------------------- Ennis Hawk
aaaaa-a----------------------- Ronald Goodstein
------a----------------------- Keith Gover
---aaa------------------------ Jason Woolf
aa---------------------------- Alec Stanculescu
-a---------------------------- Steven Dovitch
a----------------------------- Geoffrey Coram
a attended
p proxy
- absent
The chair directed everone's attention to
http://www.verilog.com/IEEEVerilog.html where a link to the IEEE
policy was reviewed.
Review of the minutes of the last ETF meeting (May 3, 2004).
Steven Sharp moves that we accept the minutes of the meeting. Ron
seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Passes.
Issues:
Generate proposal: The generate proposal was passed by the VSG in
the last meeting. Future amendments will be done as separate
issues. There is also a separate issue of 12.8 to resolve the
issue for multiple possible resolutions for hierarchical names in
generate with a defparam. Steven Sharp will file the issue.
There were a few improvements and clarifications that Gord and
others wanted to make. Shalom can file the issues.
ETF proposals:
Issue 2: Shalom moves that we close issue 2 as resolved by the
generate proposal. Steven seconds. No opposed. No abstain.
Passes.
Issue 17: Jason has suggested adding a note to the rule. Gord
liked it, but suggested slightly different wording. Jason
merged the two.
Shalom can do it.
Issue 16:
After the line in the proposal: "However, only white space
may appear on the same line as the `line directive. "
ADD:
Comments are not allowed on the same line
as a 'line directive.
James moves that we accept the proposal as modified.
Cliff seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Passes.
Issue 237:
Shalom has collected some data on implementations. There
is significant variation. We have no driver for the issue
at this time. We will move the issue back to the open state.
Issue 557:
Cliff moves that we accept the proposal. Shalom seconds.
No opposed. No abstain. Passes.
Issue 586:
In 9.5, before the NOTE, AFTER
The length of all the case item expressions, as well as the
case expression in the parentheses, shall be made equal to
the length of the longest case expression and case item
expression.
ADD
If any of these expressions is unsigned, then all of them
are treated as unsigned. If all of these expressions are
signed, then they are treated as signed.
Steven moves that we accept the above proposal. Shalom
seconds. No opposed. Alec abstains. Passes.
82:(always @*) We discussed possible solutions:
1) Stick to the LRM, add only identifiers to the sensitivity
list (no looking inside functions) A wait on an
entire array is equivalent to an entire array
2) Use option 1, but allow optimization to support subsets
of arrays. Combinational logic would behave the
same in this case.
3) Match SV always_comb's inferred sensitivity,
longest static prefix, going into functions...
Note that the once through feature of always_comb
cannot be supported.
Straw poll for support of features:
1: James, Steven, Alec
2: Steven, Don
3: Stu, Cliff, Don, Shalom, Karen, Brad
Due to lack of leadership, we will defer action on this one.
------------------------------
Open Action Items:
(12/1/03) 22: There is no concensus to a fix, so we will leave
this issue alone until there is one.
(12/1/03) 33: Mike MacNamera to make a proposal.
(11/18/02) @* proposal for issues 82, 84
The group concensus is to move always @* sensitivity inference
to match always_comb.
There is currently no one to drive a proposal.
(11/18/02) Evaluating TBD Errata. The tasks are:
Shalom
170 formatting of bnf non-terminals
(11/4/02) Steven will proposing a wording to fix 172. It will
be a significant rewrite.
Partially rewritten through the generate proposal. More
work will remain after the generate proposal is ready.
(11/18/02) 198, 254, 58, 318: Shalom
(7/14/03) 204: James volunteered to drive
He needs input on what the simulators do. There are some
complex issues here dealing with port collapsing and
inout.
That is covered by issue 54.
As to the exact issue in 204, how about adding examples
indicating that examples 2, 3, 4 are illegal? James will
do that.
He has not written this up yet. Shalom suggested that
this and 7 other errata be evalutated together. All of
the issues are Brad's (filed by him?) He does not want
to
drive. James will develop a proposal for all of them
including 204. 204, 227, 233, 234, 292, 332, 345, 452,
486(?).
(2/10/03) Issue 237: SV-BC19-41, SV-BC19-42
Dave Roberts and Shalom to fix the proposal expanding the
BNF and creating language to support it.
Is waiting on Shalom to do some experiments and come up
with a proposal based on the discussion of the 2/8/04
meeting.
Shalom ran the experiments. There is no driver so we
move this back to the open state.
(7/14/03) 245: Shalom
(7/14/03) 247: May be partially covered by generate proposal
(10/06/03) 428: Brad and Shalom
------------------------------
The meeting adjourned a little after 10:30 Pacific time with
Cliff's movement.