Meeting called to order 8:30 December 1st, 2003 Attendance: 111000000000000111110000 \ 210987654433211221109998 / Month 000011112021121101022002 \ 136814691740073628413996 / Day aaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaa*aa Steven Sharp aaapaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-a*aa Karen Pieper -aa-a----a--aa-aa--a-$aa Cliff Cummings aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa=-a Shalom Bresticker aa--a-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*aa Stefen Boyd ------a--aaaaaaaaaaaa*aa Dennis Marsa aaaaaaa-aaaaa-aaa-aaa$aa James Markevitch ---aaaa-aa-a-aaaaaaa-=-a Gordon Vreugdenhil ----aaa--aaa-aa-aaaaa$aa Anders Nordstrom -----------------aaa-$a- Ted Elkind aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-a*a- Brad Pierce aaaaaaaa-aaaaa-aaaaaa*a- Charles Dawson aaaaa-aa-a---aa-a-aa-$a- Mike McNamara aaa--aa-aaaaaaaaaa---*aa Stu Sutherland aaaa--a--------------*a- Tom Fitzpatrick ---------------------*aa Elliot Mednick --a-a-------aa---------- Don Mills ---aaaa-----a----------- Jay Lawrence a-aa-------a------------ Mehdi Mohtashemi -a--aaaa--aa------------ Kurt Baty ------a----------------- David Smith -aaaa-a----------------- Dennis Brophy aaaaaa------------------ Francoise Martinolle aaaa-------------------- Drew Lynch --a--------------------- David Roberts -a---------------------- Ennis Hawk a----------------------- Ronald Goodstein (new member, a boston --> --based consultant, his company is 'First Shot Logic Simulaton, Inc.") a----------------------- Keith Gover a attended p proxy - absent 1) As the EFT chair, Karen Pieper was still driving in, she asked that Mac serve as acting chair of the meeting; Mac agreed, and there was no objection. 2) The acting chair read the IEEE patent policy description, also directed everone's attention to http://www.verilog.com/IEEEVerilog.html where a link to the IEEE policy is prominent. 3) Stu sutherland moved and James Markevitch seconded the motion to approve the minutes of the previous meeting (11/03/2003); this was approved unanimously. 4) Mac agreed to put 1364c on web page password protected, and send out notice to the team The group then considered the ETF proposals: 5) Issue 165 : Simplify the parameter declaration by grouping the various types a parameter can have, and then using that type in the parameter declaration BNF. Shalom moves, Brad Seconds, none opposed, none abstain; motion passes 6) Issue 217: Add a description of the restriction that one can only override a parameter declared in a named block, task or function with a defparam, and then further give a method where a user can use a module instance parameter override to effect the same thing, by then structurally assigning the value of the internal parameter to hold the value of the externally assignable parameter. Shalom moves, Brads Seconds, none opposed, none abstain; motion passes unanimously 7) Issue 211: Clarify that instance parameter overrides skip over localparameters, as was the intention. Modified the proposal to change the sentences added to 12.2.3 to read: However, overriding a parameter, whether by a defparam statement or in a module instantiation statement, effectively replaces the parameter definition with the new expression. James moves, Shaloms seconds, none opposed, none abstain, motion passes unaimously 8) Issue 237: no progress 9) Issue 325: Clarify the description of external hierarchical access to items declared in automatic tasks and functions. Shalom moves, Stu seconds, none opposed, none abstain, motion passes unaimously 10) Issue 380: Remove the restriction on declaring tasks and functions in a generate loop. Shalom moves, Brad seconds, none opposed, none abstain, motion passes unaimously 11) Issue 428: still needs work. 12) Issue 467: Propose to close issue with no change. Shalom moves, Stu seconds, none opposed, none abstain, motion passes unaimously 13) Issue 484: Propose to close issue with no change. Brad moves, but there was no second. Stu then proposes, Brad seconds amend the proposal to instead delete the sentence: "A function definition shall include an assignment of the function result value to the internal variable that has the same name as the function name.", and remove the word 'six' from the previous paragraph. none opposed, none abstain, amended motion passes unaimously. 14) Issue 504: Simplification to BNF describing real and variable declarations. James proposes freindly amendment make replacement text read as follows: real_type ::= real_identifier { dimension } | real_identifier = constant_expression variable_type ::= variable_identifier { dimension } variable_identifier = constant_expression Shalom moves, James seconds, none opposed, none abstain, amended motion passes unaimously. 15) Isues 505: Make the BNF of task and fucntion declaration consistant with text. Brad moves, Shalom seconds, none opposed, none abstain, motion passes unaimously. 16) Karen moves, Stu seconds, to have the next meeting of the ETF January 12th, assuming VSG allows. None opposed, none abstain, motion passes. 17) Karen moves, Stu sedonds, to cancel December 29th meeting of ETF. None opposed, none abstain, motion passes. 18) Karen began discussion on what to do with the open issues. Shalom pointed out that some are owned, while others are unassigned. Group began some discussion of various open issues. General discussion ensued on issue 22 '@(*)', especially given '(*' and '*)' as tokens. Karen took a straw poll on consensus on what to do with this, and achieved no consensus. General discussion ensued on issue 33, and Mac agreed to take ownership of the proposal. Open Action Items: (7/14/03) 16: Shalom volunteered to drive. He needs to formulate some wording to improve what is there according to the concensus. Also, he wants to formulate a possible problem and get some reaction before he gets a formal proposal. No progress. (11/18/02) Gord and committee to return with a generate proposal for 17, 113, 208, 255. Gord sent an initial draft of a bunch of text. He has received some feedback, and it will take some work to incorporate it. Shalom asked Gord and got a mail from him. He is too busy to work on it right now. It will be 3 or 4 weeks before he will have time to work on it. Steven will try to find someone to write stuff up. Gord indicates that this is out of the scope of his job. (12/1/03) 22: There is no concensus to a fix, so we will leave this issue alone until there is one. (12/1/03) 33: Mike MacNamera to make a proposal. (10/06/03) 73: Steven to update the proposal Brad made a proposal. (11/18/02) Steven and committee to return with an @* proposal for issues 22, 82, 84 Group has agreement on some of the more contentious issues. (11/18/02) Evaluating TBD Errata. The tasks are: Shalom 165 13.11.1, A.2.1.1 -- reuse task_port_type 170 formatting of bnf non-terminals (11/4/02) Steven will proposing a wording to fix 172. It will be a significant rewrite. No Progress. (8/11/03) 175: Anders volunteered to drive This issue also came up in the Accellera SV-BC committee. We should form a group to drive all configurations issues to a resolution. Cliff might be willing to drive this in a few more meetings. We'll wait to start this until later. Cliff would be ecstatic if someone else volunteered. (11/18/02) Evaluating TBD Errata. The tasks are: Charles 197 sscanf/"string" incompatibility No progress. (11/18/02) 198: Shalom Evaluating TBD Errata. The tasks are: 198 sinks should allow only constant part-selects Shalom will make the smaller change to allow port expressions to be what is allowed on the lhs of a continuous assignment. Shalom postponing this one because in section 12 talking about port connections, it talks about what you can have on the receiver side of a port connection (a structural net expression). In section 5 it talks about how a port connection is an implied continuous assignment. In section 6 there is a description of the lhs of a continuous assignment; this is very limited. After recent updates, the BNF for a net lvalue can also be an element of an array of wires; this is reasonable for a continuous assignment. For ports, the situation is more complicated. The structural net expression has not been expanded to allow the BNF changes. Steven recommends that it be a net lvalue. Shalom is concerned that this is an enhancement. We took a straw poll and no one wanted to deal with it as an enhancement. (7/14/03) 204: James volunteered to drive He needs input on what the simulators do. There are some complex issues here dealing with port collapsing and inout. That is covered by issue 54. As to the exact issue in 204, how about adding examples indicating that examples 2, 3, 4 are illegal? James will do that. He has not written this up yet. Shalom suggested that this and 7 other errata be evalutated together. All of the issues are Brad's (filed by him?) He does not want to drive. James will develop a proposal for all of them including 204. 204, 227, 233, 234, 292, 332, 345, 452, 486(?). (7/14/03) 227: Anders volunteered to drive (7/14/03) 233: Anders volunteered to drive (7/14/03) 234: Anders volunteered to drive (2/10/03) Issue 237: SV-BC19-41, SV-BC19-42 Dave Roberts and Shalom to fix the proposal expanding the BNF and creating language to support it. No progress. Shalom has not heard from Dave Roberts. (7/14/03) 245: Shalom volunteered to drive (7/14/03) 247: Anders volunteered to drive (10/06/03) 428: Brad will update the proposal based upon Shalom's feedback. (11/3/03) Shalom has the action to add an issue for the situation where you need a hierarchical reference that allows an array of scopes. This is a follow on from issue 209. (11/3/03) Shalom will open an issue on parameters and signing reflecting issues raised in 441. Meeting adjourned at 10:30